Ethanol Collective ethanolcollective.com

In 1993 I purchased a new Snapper riding lawn mowerr from a local short lines equipmnet dealer. When I went to pick up the mower, the dealer told me ethanol would be real bad on the engine and carburetor components. He also said "if you DO use ethanol in the mower and when it fails, don't bring it back to me for service work".  Well, I went home with my new mower, drove it off the trailer and went right up to my E-10 tank and filled it with fuel.  I used the mower for 12 years on my large farm yard using the E-10 ethanol blend all the time. Well, everything else on the mower wore out, except the engine. I never had a problem with any engine or carburetor components.  I am now proudly in my second year of my new Snapper Lawn Pro and still using E-10.  I will not hesitate to use E-15 as soon as it is avaialble. 

It is basically a mandate that modern engines be able to run a blend.  The issues in the past with Ethanol blends was with hoses and seals.  The blends used in rubber and silicon products now are made to withstand the effects of the alcohol.  Internally there are no components that would be damaged by alcohol, if anything it should help keep a small engine carburetor cleaner.

We have always used E10 in our lawn mowers here on our farm, with no trouble whatsoever.  We're also running E50 right now in our pick-up (Chevy flex-fuel) and car (Pontiac non-flex) and that seems to work very well.

My name is Matthew Schmidt and I live in York, Pennsylvania.  For 3 years now, I have been running 40-60% ethanol in my 2006 4-cylinder Ford Focus.  I have never had a single problem or driveability issue with the car doing this. The check engine light will come on when my ethanol percentage surpasses 40% however the car does not drive or perform any differently.  When I put gasoline in it and the ethanol percentage goes below 40% the check engine light goes out.  I believe ethanol is a great step towards our energy independence.  I am just a little dismayed that NO ONE is making a small car flex fuel.  I wish Ford would make the focus or the new fiesta flex fuel.  I know the 2010 fusion is flex fuel but the V6 version is the flex fuel model.  I like smaller engines and better fuel economy.  And I prefer American fuel like ethanol.  I will continue blending E85 and E10 into my 2006 Focus so that I can maximize my ethanol usage.  It does not harm the engine or the fuel system in anyway whatsoever.

Hey Matt , It's not that they aren't making them , where do you think all the vehicles that run on 85% to 100% ethanol in Brazil come from ?   Detroit and Canada makes em for export ..... I hope that sometime soon E85 will be avail. to me here near Altoona PA.    So far the closest is State College PA.    From what I understand  just about every vehicle made after 1996 has the necessary o rings and hoses that are O.K. to use with E85 ...My Uncle in NV uses E85 in his 1967 Pontiac and a 65 Chevy pick-up truck....He's a certified mechanic (retired) and said all he had to do was turn the distributor a bit and adjust the carb. some.....LOL  Both have huge V8's in them and he won't drive anything smaller so he likes the cheaper ethanol ..

There are lots of flex fuel cars.  My post states no one is making SMALL cars available in the US that are flex fuel.  I want a fuel efficient 4 cylinder that can run on E85.  The only one currently available is the Chevy HHR, which doesn't even get very good fuel economy on gasoline by the way.  The numbers are 21 city and 30 hwy for gasoline, which is pretty lousy for a 4 cylinder engine. And I would never buy a GM piece of crap.

I have been thinking about converting a commercial riding mower to run on E85. I would want to get the most power out of the engine possible, as well as most effiency. Question is: What small engine would have the stongest bottom-end? So that if I increased the compression ratio to around 12 to 1 it would be ok.

Reply to HHR. Matthew you should consider the HHR. GM is not crap. However, I understand why you think that. This is not just my opinion. There are three auto makers that are consantly in the top three for JD Powers and Associates for quality. Honda, Toyota, and GM. JD Powers results are based statistics only, no emotions. As far as the economy, it is a little low, but the four cylinder is pushing a larger small car thru the wind.

I have never purchased a fuel that is not E10 (except possibly on vacation outside of my home state when it's not available) for my car or for my lawn mower. I've never had a single problem with either, and I get fantastic mileage in my 1999 Toyota Camry. My co-worker is working hard to help Sioux Falls get its first blender pump - then I'm hoping to make the switch to E30 as often as possible. Results from a study a few years ago showed a Camry with optimal mileage using E30, so I'm excited to give that a try. If you're interested, that study can be found here http://www.ethanol.org/pdf/contentmgmt/ACEFuelEconomyStudy_001.pdf.

Hi Folks!

 First post so here I go, I personally run Ethanol and only ethanol/E85 in all my equipment. My pick up, 4 wheelers, mowers/weed eaters, Scooter everything that has a motor runs on E85. I have logged  over 100,00.00 miles on a none flex fuel truck and my pick up runs better today at 217,000.00 than it did when I purchased the truck with 60,000.00

 Folks Ethanol is by far the superior fuel for any combustion ingine, junk pump gas in time will in fact destroy a combustion ingine and that's a fact. Folks its the other way around and big oil knows it. why do you think a combustion ingine is only good for so long?

 Every single rummer you have herd on Ethanol that it will destroy a motor is false and I have the equipment that is ran on a daily basis to prove them wrong.

 I sure would like to answer any questions that you folks may have.

 Thanks... Greg

Hi Greg, welcome to the site!  That's great that you've had such success with E85 in all those different engines.  You might be interested in a test done at Lake Area Tech in Watertown, SD where they disassembled a non-flex Tahoe that ran more than 100,000 miles on E85 - there's a video posted at www.youtube.com/ACEethanol. 

Hello Kristin,

"Yes Mam Great video" Seen it and blog it all the time. 

Here in the mid west E85 is abundant and when it made it to my small town back in 2005 I just about broke my neck as I drove by a station, E85 $104.00 a gallon.

 I am a mechanic by trade and I have got many many years of hard core ingine building experience. I always new that Ethanol as a fuel was a far superior fuel than pump gas but it just was never available unless you wanted to distill it yourself. Anyways I could not fill my tank fast enough I new even though my pick up was a none flex fuel vehicle that Alcohol as a fuel is far far  superior fuel than junk pump gas. 

Well 100,000,00 miles later and god only knows how many thousands of gallons went through my tank the truck purrrrrs like a kitten. I also ride and race mud bikes/4wheelers and run them on Ethanol. All this BS how ethanol attracts water is so blown out of proportion, take a look at  the picture I posted as my profile picture. That bike is in 4 feet of water and has spent most of its life under water. We submerge and race our bikes through race pits and ponds, mud bogs and swamps. So Ethanol attracts water? O really Hog wash! and I can prove them wrong.

Anyways not trying to start a war just want the truth to be known and if folks want to run E85 than they should listen to the folks that run it.  

Kristin What part of the country are you at and do you use E85?

I am going to over the next year to year and a half convert an '81 1.6 liter diesel VW rabbit engine to run on E85. I will be putting a 1.7 gas engine head on the diesel short block. David Blume's book, Alcohol can be Gas, indicates an ethanol engine runs best at about 18.5 to 1 compression ratio. The diesel engine I am converting runs currently on 23 to 1 compression. The question is "what is the best compression ratio for E85?"

The objective of my endeavor is to get 50 mpg out of my VW Rabbit with E85. Are their any experts that can lend advice? I will reply to any responses. However, that may take as long a week at times. I work a lot.

I mow for a living and have used nothing but E10 in my mowers and 2 cycle equipment since 2007. I have not had a single issue related to fuel.

i work in a power equipment store that sells and services lawnmowers, weedeaters and other small engine equipment. Any ethanol in a small engine will harm it and the carb in the long run on it. We see close to a hundred different engines come in a week and all of the problems with them are ethanol related. On every one of them we have to replace the Carb and all the fuel lines because the ethanol will eat through them. This all most always costs in the hundred doller or higher range to fix. Most of the equipment is also only a year or so old. We have not seen this many problems until the government required gas stations to put 10 percent ethanol in gas. Basically Ethanol will kill a small engine even if it is only 10 percent. Do not use gas with ethanol in it in these small engines. If you have to get an additive that takes the ethanol out.

Brian S - what are the carbs and fuel lines that you have replaced made of? 

Since the manufacturers of those small engines have been building them to run on E10 since as early as the early 80's, I am alarmed when someone finds "close to a hundred engines a week" - most of which were made to run on ethanol - that have suddenly failed.  Especially if "most of the equipment is also a year or so old." I'm not aware of a single brand of small engine that is not compatible and warranteed for use with E10.

Can you give us a list of the engines that you see most often with these "ethanol related" damages? It would help us a great deal to let people know not to buy small engines from those people, since almost all of the gas sold in the US has ethanol in it. We would also want to contact the manufacturer, so that they could take steps to improve the quality of their machines.

We have heard similar comments from auto mechanics in areas where ethanol has been added over the last 30 years - but those turned out to mostly be scams where the mechanic took advantage of fear created by ethanol misinformation, and made unnecessary repairs and racked up big bills by blaming ethanol.  I'm sure this is very different, though.

Hi Folks,

I have read several of your comments regarding Ethanol for fuel. E15 or E85 makes no difference what so ever as far as its corrosive properties, fact is you are doing far more damage to any combustion ingine running pump gas for fuel.

Pump gas not only burns filthy dirty it is far more destructive when it comes to O rings and seals and given time unused it will turn sour/Stael and now you have gumming do to bad fuel. Ethanol is a solvent, Ethanol is Alcohol and Alcohol is a preservative. Alcohol has a shelf life forever, poor a container full of alcohol come back ten years later and you have a nothing more than Alcohol as good as the day you left it. "Now" where the problem lies just as soon as we denature the Alcohol with pump gas, the Alcohol as a solvent it is breaks down the petroleum and that is were the problem lies. You see its not the Ethanol that is the problem it is the junk pump gas! the Alcohol is only doing its job. So what do we do? I run all my equipment on E85 and if I had access to E 98 I would. My mowers, weed eaters, 4 wheelers, and my vehicles all run Ethanol in the forum of E85 and "none of them are flex fuel. I have made some adjustment to my rigs but rarely do I have to unless the weather gets real cold than I just start blending more pump gas to the Ethanol.

Lets take a look at what just occurred in the gulf do to drilling for petroleum. Big oil has poisoned our precious resources. We have fish kills by the millions every day, the air is toxic, and people are getting sick BIG TIME!!

"WAKE UP AMERICA" and Take control !! don`t let big oil and our one sided government be in control of our energy needs! Power of the people will make the change and if you are not for more Ethanol you are for more oil and that folks is a path of destruction, its past has spoken for its future. So there you go the truth :)  

I am a member of a CSE group in Hutchinson, MN. We are planning to produce several thousand gallons of ethanol per year for our members and a portion may be sold to the general public. As part of our effort, several group members have been experimenting with various blends of ethanol in different engines, to collect real data as opposed to the anecdotal evidence found in abundance on the web. It is sad how much blatantly false information is being casually thrown around by people who have no clue as to what they are talking about.

My experimentation has centered around my 1967 John Deere 112 lawn tractor. It has a 10HP Tecumseh engine, and has evidently led a very hard life. It seemed like a good candidate to test, because it is would be an extreme worst-case being that it was clearly not originally intended to run ethanol, and also because if there was any damage the loss would be minimal.

My results this far have been outstanding. I started out in the spring running a 40% ethanol blend, and the performance was noticeably better than with "normal" (E10) gasoline. The difference is when the engine is under load, it does not bog down and stall as easily as with straight gas. It ran so well, in fact, that I quickly switched to E85 just to see how it would run. Surprisingly, the carburetor adjustments were minimal (mostly an idle mix adjustment), and the engine has run perfectly well. It ran noticeably cooler in the summer, and has run great thus far for snow removal (down to near zero F). It does take a small shot of ether to get it to start in temperatures this cold, which is not unexpected with ethanol. My next step will be to run straight (denatured) ethanol from our distillery.

In the interest of adding to the data pool, I have noted two material incompatibilities, both related to the fuel filler cap and its built-in fuel gauge. Shortly after switching from E10 to E40+, the clear plastic lens on the fuel cap warped and shriveled up, which seems likely due to the ethanol. The cork float on the gauge has also disintegrated, which may or may not be due to the ethanol. It is 40+ years old after all. If you want to run ethanol in a vintage machine, I would recommend replacing this type of fuel/cap gauge to prevent damaging a valuable original piece.

Ron

What equipment do you know that actually warranties any fuel related issues?  Where does the shellack come from?  Maybe I'm just a female who doesn't understand.